Thread In plain English-how do 'assignable outs' work/what's the advantages?
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Uncle EZ
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1 Posted on 11/07/2006 at 08:37:57
I know it's a very basic question, but I've never had a board (module or keyboard) that has them. Right now I'm putting together a studio, and I'm looking at the Roland Phantom (module) or the Yamaha Motif (module). They both have four assignable outs. I have heard that some Kerzwiels have eight. I had a 16 channel mixer that I donated to my church so I'm without one now, but I'm assuming to maximize the usefulness of whichever module I get, I'll need at least a four channel mixer to control each out. (probably an 8 channel if I want to run mic's and other instruments).
All that said, can someone give me a breakdown of how I'd use the assignable out feature on one of these modules or keyboards? If you could, please explain it as if you're telling a thirteen year old. Audiophiles have a tendency to use audiophile language that is over the heads of some of us newbies!!! Thanks a bunch.
Uncle EZ
All that said, can someone give me a breakdown of how I'd use the assignable out feature on one of these modules or keyboards? If you could, please explain it as if you're telling a thirteen year old. Audiophiles have a tendency to use audiophile language that is over the heads of some of us newbies!!! Thanks a bunch.
Uncle EZ
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ra7or
AFfluent Poster
2 Posted on 11/07/2006 at 09:23:45
assignable outputs let you send different parts of your compositions to external devices and/or processors.
Uncle EZ
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3 Posted on 11/07/2006 at 11:48:15
Man Razor, you are sharp!!! (pardon the pun)
Let me make sure I have this right...
If I have 16 channels on my sound module, and it has 4 assignable 1/4" outs,-I can start by assigning channels '1' through '4' to those four outs. Then run a line from 'Output 1' to 'Input 1' on my mixer, 'Output 2' to 'Input 2' on the mixer, and so on... I'd then be able to mix those four channels any way I want using the mixer, and record them into my recording software (Acid Pro 6) using the midi timecode device to keep them all properly synced.
Then, once those four channels are recorded, I'd go back and assign channels '5' through '9' to those four outs, and do the same thing. And then '10' through '13', and finally channels '14' through '16'...
So to record a sequence that has used all 16 channels with 16 different instruments, I'd have to record four separate times to get all of them, but- the advantage would be that I had full mixing control over four channels at a time, as opposed to the way I do it now (right now I have a Korg X5dr with just stereo outs. You can only apply two effects to your entire composition. There's absolutely no control over each channel other than 'pan').
I guess the only question I have is, how does the timecode feature on a digital workstation keep all the tracks recording at the same time so that they aren't all starting at different times. Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm trying to step into 21st century recording before my current setup dries up and blows out the window.
And thanks a lot.
Let me make sure I have this right...
If I have 16 channels on my sound module, and it has 4 assignable 1/4" outs,-I can start by assigning channels '1' through '4' to those four outs. Then run a line from 'Output 1' to 'Input 1' on my mixer, 'Output 2' to 'Input 2' on the mixer, and so on... I'd then be able to mix those four channels any way I want using the mixer, and record them into my recording software (Acid Pro 6) using the midi timecode device to keep them all properly synced.
Then, once those four channels are recorded, I'd go back and assign channels '5' through '9' to those four outs, and do the same thing. And then '10' through '13', and finally channels '14' through '16'...
So to record a sequence that has used all 16 channels with 16 different instruments, I'd have to record four separate times to get all of them, but- the advantage would be that I had full mixing control over four channels at a time, as opposed to the way I do it now (right now I have a Korg X5dr with just stereo outs. You can only apply two effects to your entire composition. There's absolutely no control over each channel other than 'pan').
I guess the only question I have is, how does the timecode feature on a digital workstation keep all the tracks recording at the same time so that they aren't all starting at different times. Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm trying to step into 21st century recording before my current setup dries up and blows out the window.
And thanks a lot.
ra7or
AFfluent Poster
4 Posted on 11/07/2006 at 14:26:20
your method, works.
the only problem will be syncing the tracks.
i understand that you have a soundblaster card, right? so you have just one stereo input.
this means that 4 midi channels at a time will be recorded in 1 stereo audio track. 16 midi channels result in 4 stereo audio tracks, right?
so your project will have 4 stereo tracks.
in case of audio, syncing will have to be done manually shifting the tracks so that they start all together.
it is time consuming, but it works
OR...
you could just record directly 16 midi channels (you should have a midiman, right?) into Acid.
This way it would be MUCH faster, giving you more control on each instrument.
then you just playback them thru a VST instrument like Nostalgia Zero-G (http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2005/Nostalgia.html) that acts exactly like a real module (it comes loaded with the original Korg X5DR sound banks, and many many many MANY more)
the only problem will be syncing the tracks.
i understand that you have a soundblaster card, right? so you have just one stereo input.
this means that 4 midi channels at a time will be recorded in 1 stereo audio track. 16 midi channels result in 4 stereo audio tracks, right?
so your project will have 4 stereo tracks.
in case of audio, syncing will have to be done manually shifting the tracks so that they start all together.
it is time consuming, but it works
OR...
you could just record directly 16 midi channels (you should have a midiman, right?) into Acid.
This way it would be MUCH faster, giving you more control on each instrument.
then you just playback them thru a VST instrument like Nostalgia Zero-G (http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2005/Nostalgia.html) that acts exactly like a real module (it comes loaded with the original Korg X5DR sound banks, and many many many MANY more)
Uncle EZ
New AFfiliate
5 Posted on 11/08/2006 at 07:15:18
I'm actually buying whatever equipment I need in the next couple of weeks. You've been very helpful. Right now I do have a 2X2 midman interface. Instead of getting another mixer, would it make sense for me to just get a soundcard with at least four 1/4" inputs?? In which case, would I be able to designate four individual tracks in Acid to each 1/4" input on the soundcard? Like, telling audio track '1' to record 'input 1' and so on?? If this is true, I guess I could eliminate the need for a mixer all toghether, and just get an interface that can handle eight or ten total inputs.
I only have Vegas LE right now and that's very limited- but I always thought that complete software packages like Acid Pro 6 had a 'midi timecode' feature so that when you hit play and record on Acid, it would automatically trigger your sequencer to start playing, so that everything starts and stops at the same time. If that's true, it would eliminate a lot of headache. That's for sure.
Something else I'm curious about is soundcards. At this point in technology, is there a difference between a "soundcard" and an "interface"?? I mean, M-Audio has the 10/10. Some other companies have similar interfaces. Are they actually considerred 'soundcards', or do I need a separate soundcard that will allow this interface to connect to my PC? Looking at what I intend to do, I guess what I need is an interface (or soundcard) that has like five or six 1/4" ins, at least one 1/8" in, and at least two midi I/O's (hopefully more) in case I want to sequence using more than one module at a time. I still plan to get the Motif ES module, and would like to be able to build compositions using a combination of that and the X5DR that I have, and maybe that Nostalgia Zero-G software. Apparently Acid is able to select which midi instrument to use for each Midi track.
I only have Vegas LE right now and that's very limited- but I always thought that complete software packages like Acid Pro 6 had a 'midi timecode' feature so that when you hit play and record on Acid, it would automatically trigger your sequencer to start playing, so that everything starts and stops at the same time. If that's true, it would eliminate a lot of headache. That's for sure.
Something else I'm curious about is soundcards. At this point in technology, is there a difference between a "soundcard" and an "interface"?? I mean, M-Audio has the 10/10. Some other companies have similar interfaces. Are they actually considerred 'soundcards', or do I need a separate soundcard that will allow this interface to connect to my PC? Looking at what I intend to do, I guess what I need is an interface (or soundcard) that has like five or six 1/4" ins, at least one 1/8" in, and at least two midi I/O's (hopefully more) in case I want to sequence using more than one module at a time. I still plan to get the Motif ES module, and would like to be able to build compositions using a combination of that and the X5DR that I have, and maybe that Nostalgia Zero-G software. Apparently Acid is able to select which midi instrument to use for each Midi track.
ra7or
AFfluent Poster
6 Posted on 11/08/2006 at 08:06:11
i have only 2 mins... i'll post a quick answer and come online later to give you a few suggestions on soundcards.
An interface defines the communication between two entities, such as software and/or hardware. USB, FireWire, LPT1, COM etc... are interfaces.
A sound card is...well... a sound card. its wherever you plug your inputs in. Sound cards have interfaces, like any other external/internal pc device.
Often people mistake mixing up these words, thinking that "interface" means "soundcard". it doesn't work that way.
later!
An interface defines the communication between two entities, such as software and/or hardware. USB, FireWire, LPT1, COM etc... are interfaces.
A sound card is...well... a sound card. its wherever you plug your inputs in. Sound cards have interfaces, like any other external/internal pc device.
Often people mistake mixing up these words, thinking that "interface" means "soundcard". it doesn't work that way.
later!
Uncle EZ
New AFfiliate
7 Posted on 11/08/2006 at 09:57:11
So when I buy the new PC, I'll need a heavy duty sound card with plenty of 'inputs' and I'll need an interface with plenty of 'inputs'? This is where the confusion comes in.
Is there a peice of hardware (soundcard or interface) that will allow me to operate at least four separate midi devices together, that will also allow me to connect at least four 1/4" lines and four microphones (either XLR or 1/4" lines) into my computer???
Or will I need to buy a 'stand alone' midi interface that has 5 to 8 I/O/Thru ports, and then purchanse a sound card with like ten 1/4" input jacks??
I'm not trying to confuse you, but when I go on 'musiciansfriend.com' or 'zzounds.com' or whatever, I keep finding abbreviated versions of what I think I need. Either it will be an interface with one or two midi connections and a few 1/4" I/O's, or something with plenty of inputs but no midi capability. I'm starting to get depressed over this friggin stuff!
Is there a peice of hardware (soundcard or interface) that will allow me to operate at least four separate midi devices together, that will also allow me to connect at least four 1/4" lines and four microphones (either XLR or 1/4" lines) into my computer???
Or will I need to buy a 'stand alone' midi interface that has 5 to 8 I/O/Thru ports, and then purchanse a sound card with like ten 1/4" input jacks??
I'm not trying to confuse you, but when I go on 'musiciansfriend.com' or 'zzounds.com' or whatever, I keep finding abbreviated versions of what I think I need. Either it will be an interface with one or two midi connections and a few 1/4" I/O's, or something with plenty of inputs but no midi capability. I'm starting to get depressed over this friggin stuff!
ra7or
AFfluent Poster
8 Posted on 11/08/2006 at 11:52:43
a MOTU Traveller could be your answer
https://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler
it has every possible input you can imagine. but it only has 1 MIDI channel (16 instruments)
As an alternative you can make a composite interface:
MOTU Micro Express (4-in/6-out MIDI) + MOTU UltraLite (24-bit, 96kHz, 10 inputs and 14 outputs)
check them out:
https://www.motu.com/products/midi/micro_usb
https://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite
With these two, you should have every input you need.
https://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler
it has every possible input you can imagine. but it only has 1 MIDI channel (16 instruments)
As an alternative you can make a composite interface:
MOTU Micro Express (4-in/6-out MIDI) + MOTU UltraLite (24-bit, 96kHz, 10 inputs and 14 outputs)
check them out:
https://www.motu.com/products/midi/micro_usb
https://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite
With these two, you should have every input you need.
Uncle EZ
New AFfiliate
9 Posted on 11/08/2006 at 13:20:03
That's cool. Since talking to you the last time, I did a little more reading and realized that I'm probably going to need a separate midi interface, which is fine. Both components you showed me seem to be just what I need. Only question left, I guess- is the FireWire issue. I haven't purchased the computer yet. Do I need a FireWire port on my PC, and do most DAW software programs support FireWire connections? Meaning, will it recognize a component that's connected via FireWire?
ra7or
AFfluent Poster
10 Posted on 11/08/2006 at 14:06:25
oh yes, get a firewire-equipped pc if you can, since most audio interfaces support only that.
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