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Thread July 18, 2015 editorial: comments

  • 26 replies
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1 July 18, 2015 editorial: comments

Live Sound Burnout Syndrome

I had an annoying experience at a gig recently. My band was playing at a music festival in which there was a very good sound system, and everything onstage was miked. As a result, I didn’t worry about turning up my guitar amp any louder than was necessary to hear myself. The front of house mixer had my back — or so I assumed.

After the set, I talked to friends who were in the audience, and discovered that my guitar was almost inaudible out front. WTF? Apparently, this sound guy was asleep at the switch. My assumption was that he just didn’t give a shit. We were just one of many bands playing over the course of the day, and he was too lazy to put in the effort to mix us correctly. Now, please if any of you out there are live sound mixers, don’t take this wrong, but I have noticed this attitude frequently among many (but not all) soundpeople — at clubs especially. I’ve also talked to musician friends of mine who’ve experienced the same thing.

There must be something about having to mix a lot of bands, day in and day out, that turns a lot of live sound engineers into grumpy old men who don’t give a damn. On some level, I sympathize, because, especially at clubs with multiple band bills (which are most clubs these days), the house sound person has to deal with many bands every night, some of whom play too loud or show very little respect and complain on the mic about the monitors. But still...If they’re going to do that job, why not try to do their best?

Sure, club sound engineers need a lot of patience to deal with so many musicians on a regular basis, some of whom are jerks or treat the microphones and other sound gear carelessly. But hey, we all have challenges in our jobs, but they don’t make us just stop caring. (At least I hope not.)

So what do you think? Have you had similar experiences with the sound personnel at the clubs and other venues you play? 

2
I have had that experience and it has taught me not to trust sound men to take care of my sound, unless it is one who works specifically with the band. I am careful to play quietly when accompanying, but when it is time for fills or a solo, I am not shy about turning up and trust my amp to get myself heard over the band. It is not just sound people; you often have to deal with band members who think your solo is an excuse for everyone to turn up because the singer isn't singing. I have had to instruct fellow players that when it is time for my solo, I become the singer and need to be afforded the same accompaniment courtesy as the vocalist.

Michael Ross

guitarmoderne.com

3
As an A1 who has worked for a handful of clubs I can tell you I wouldn't hire the majority of these so called engineers. These production managers usually played in a band and hire their friends. Unfortunately they are most likely musicians who didn't make it. I would never trust my sound with an uneducated idiot like they hire. As a person who has a certificate in audio engineering from Musicians Institute in Hollywood and a bachelors degree from Ai San Diego I'm appalled. There's a good reason why the sound sucks. If you brought the same sound person into the studio (a controlled environment) they wouldn't sound any better than they do mixing for the house or monitors. I'm truly surprised that more clubs aren't sued for all the monitor feedback peaks and crappy sounding audio that is common nowadays. The only solution is to find new production managers who will hire people who are trained professionals. Not somebody's friend who they think they can train on the job. Hey, why don't we vote with our pocketbooks? When I go to a club and it sounds like garbage I never go back. We should all do the same. I guess that's the reason why most decent bands bring their own mixing engineer.
4
There's an old joke about a club that's interviewing prospective new live sound engineers. The interviewer asks the candidate how long has he been mixing live music? The engineer responds "no thanks, I just had lunch".
The interviewer writes down a quick note and hands it to engineer, it says "when can you start?"
The unfortunate reality is that there are still too many live sound venues where the levels are out of control and hazardous to the hearing of the patrons. Now imagine the sound guy who does this 4 to 6 hours every night. It's possible that the engineer is using metering or fader positions to mix the sound and has no idea what the actual audio level is because he can't hear it properly and most guitarists just crank it up. So maybe it's your fault for not cranking it up (just kidding).
5
Couldn't agree MORE- yeah, vote with the wallet, but ALSO tell the club manager WHY. This is his living, if the club starts to slide HE is the one going out the door. So TELL the manager about the sound, and maybe offer some qualified names for the club to hire as a "house" mixer full-time. The improved quality of sound not only makes the bands happy, it also makes the HOUSE happy. And a happy house stays & DRINKS ! !
Jersey_Danny
6
Quote:
I have had that experience and it has taught me not to trust sound men to take care of my sound, unless it is one who works specifically with the band
Good point. In the situation I talked about in the editorial, it was a pro sound company at an established music festival, so I figured their FOH guy would be more attentive than a club sound person. Lesson learned.
7
Quote:
When I go to a club and it sounds like garbage I never go back. We should all do the same. I guess that's the reason why most decent bands bring their own mixing engineer.

Point well taken. However, for those who live in areas without a vibrant club scene, boycotting a club could mean losing one of the few options to hear live music.
8
Like I had mentioned, Mike - - talk to the club's Manager. It's ultimately HIS responsibility for anything involving the operation of the club - and if it's going to affect the number of people showing up, usually the issue gets paid attention to.

And having a short list of decent board ops to offer helps, too.

Jersey Danny

9
I think the reality is, that a lot guys buy a PA system and then call themselves "sound engineers!"

For decades I have been studying music, and sound, frequency, reverb and everything else that goes with it, and I wouldn`t dream of calling myself an engineer.. perhaps an dabbler in audio at best. As a guitarist, I have learned to get the sound I want at the volume that suits me best on stage . Also I have learned not to embarrass the sound man by asking for a boost or cut at a certain frequency, because they feel intimidated if you know more that them and WILL give you a crap sound out front deliberately.
I once saw a great young band at a club where my "friend" was doing sound. As I spoke to him at his mixing console I pointed out that the guy playing the guitar solo on stage was completely inaudible.. he just sat there with his arms folded, looked at me and shrugged his shoulders. Poeple like that should really just pack up and make room for enthusiastic sound guys. I know some really great sound guys too, I sat with a guy at a gig once who was constantly and enthusiastically riding the live mix from the band, and it was amazing to watch. He had never seen the band before, but as a musician himself, spent quiet some time before the gig talking to the band, trying to learn about the idea of the sound they had in their heads. He was constantly filtering panning changing eq and reverb - very tastefully, as the gig progressed,. The band and the audience loved it! The unfortunate thing is people like that are never thanked or acknowledged. REAL experts like that do it for the love of it, but need the freedom to work in the way that suits them best... not in a way that where some quick buck making club owner, make their minimum wage job feel mundane and boring.
10
Quote:
The unfortunate reality is that there are still too many live sound venues where the levels are out of control and hazardous to the hearing of the patrons.

Indeed, and bands are a big part of the problem with out of control sound, as well, thanks to singers who need the monitors maxed out, drummers who hit too hard in a small room, and guitarists who turn up to 11.