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Wall of guitars!!

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Topic Wall of guitars!!
Hey everyone what's up?
I just have a quick question for all of you and I hope someone can help.
I've been trying ALOT to get a HUGE guitar sound in my tracks; Hence the title "Wall of guitars"
I've talked to some buddies and they say that all you have to do is space a couple of guitar tracks out over the spectrum and eq them differently. However, they make this sound alot easier then it actually is. I play and record hard rock and Im looking for that powerhouse sound that alot of commercially produced cds have, a good example of this would be any track off of Nickelbacks album "The Long Road." That is the sound Im going for.
If you're unfimiliar with this album, Im sure you still know what I mean.
So if anyone out there could give some suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bones.
2
Hve you tried double or triple tracking them? Not just copy or delay, but actually play the same part 2 or 3 (or more) times, perhaps with a slightly different tone or guitar.
The Axeman (##(===> Cuts From My New Blues CD
3
I record 4 guitar tracks when I look for a big acoustic sound. (Sorry, I don't do much electric), but it gives me that big sound. Like axeman said, record 4 different tracks, not copy and paste. It gives that vibe of different guitarists. Anyway, I pan 100% Left, 70% Left, 70% right, 100% Right and run the bass straight up the center stereo.


Justin
4
You may want to experiment with different guitars for the different tracks as Axeman suggested. You can also obtain interesting results by doubling your electric guitar parts with an acoustic guitar.
5
Hey Axeman, Gawain and mackovyak, thanks for the responses.
Axeman, I did what you suggested and just played and recorded the same track twice. It's amazing how much of a difference that made.
Mack, that panning suggestion was interesting, I've never tried that before, it seems to work very well.
I've heard of the acoustic guitar trick before, I just dont have an acoustic at my house to try it with.
Anyways, Im gonna work on these tunes for a couple days and I'll let you guys know how things turn out.

LAter,
Bones
6
Hey guys whats up?
I finished doing what you suggested and I think it turned out well. Now the only thing left to do is get my singer over hear to do the vocals, but before I do that, I would really appreciate it if you guys could take a listen and let me know what you think of the track so far.
www.nowhereradio.com/bones/singles
the tune is call "Over Again Fine"

I think I got the eq right, but like I said, I would really appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Bones.
7
Get some bass in there, but it sounds good. Nice full sound.


:P
8
Bones-

Good start. A couple of thoughts-

Guitars- too much high midrange. Around 1.2-2.0 khz, I'd say. Too much. Makes the guitars too obnoxious sounding. A more pleasing "in yer face" tone would have a bump around 600-800 hz. I would also spread the guitars apart some more, especially where they come in after the quiet part that I assume will be the first verse. I would recommend at least a 10 oclock- 2 oclock pan, if not a 3-9 or wider. You might also want to play with sending offset effects sends- i/e put the guitar and some of the main effect on one side, and it's corresponding effect only (at a reduced level from the main signal) on the other.

Bass- too distorted, not enough mid range for definition, possibly not loud enough. You may have wanted the bass to be a little distorted, but again the distortion is too aggressive and winds up being a little obnoxious. Hard to tell because there isn't a lot of definition ot the bass. The low end seems decent (300 hz and below), but the definition of a bass tone is found up a little higher, say 700-1khz. It is important that there is enough of these freqs to bring out the attack of each note and the upper harmonic component of the bass. It also helps spearate the bass from the kick drum somewhat, since they largely occupy the same portion of the frequency spectrum.

I like the tune, and I think you're on the right track. I would recommend that you take a comercial CD of the same genre of music that you are familiar with and like the mix on and play it through the system you're mixing on. Get familiar with how that sounds through your system, and then compare it to how you mix is different and use that as a reference for further adjustment.
The Axeman (##(===> Cuts From My New Blues CD
9
Thank guys, I appreciate the compliments.
I really have no way of expressing how greatful I am to be a part of this forum, you guys clearly have some serious experience and I appreciate you helping me out.
Axeman, Im having a little trouble with your advice. Im not sure how to do the whole send effects thing. lol, do you mean have the main clean part with the effect at say 70 left and then just cut and paste that track to the right side and lower the overall level? Im not sure what 70 left would be, maybe 10 o'clock???
So, Im gonna wait for a response from you untill I start down that road, but Im gonna go ahead and mess with the bass a bit to see if I can bring it up in the mix.

Thanks,
BonEs.
10
Bones-

Ah, I'm kind of an old school guy, so I tend to reference the pan thing to knob positions on a mixer. A typical pan knob on a mixer goes from about 7 oclock to 5 oclock, with 7 being hard left, 5 being hard right, and 12 oclock being up the middle. Most digital units use 128 bits, with 0 (or 1, depending on their numbering convention)being hard left, 0 being up the middle, and 128 (or 127 if they started with 0) being hard right. You can figure it out from there, huh? :lol:

The effects thing- I use this trick mostly with delay, but it works with chorus and pitch shift or detune as well. Try this-

Take a dry guitar track. Clone it to a second track. Now you have two identical guitar tracks. Put a simple delay on the second track. Set the delay real short (like 100ms or so), set the feedback (or number of repeats) for half a second or so. Set the delay output 100% "wet" so that all you hear is the delay and none of the undelayed signal gets through. Then, take the original track of the dry guitar, pan it to about 9 oclock on the left, then take the second track where all you hear is the delayed signal, and pan it to 1 or 2 oclock on the right. Set the fader on the delay track a good 5-7 db or so lower than the dry track on the left so it's just a ghost and doesn't interfere too much with the dry track.

Viola, you have just split the effects off the main signal, and in doing so gave your dry guitar track a lot of depth. Now you can play around with other effects or combinations. Chorus the dry side a little. Add a skosh of the original undelayed signal back in on the right. Try it with a couple of cents of pitch shift instead of delay. If you listen closely to the first Led Zepplin album on a pair of decent headphones, you wil hear all kinds of interesting things going on with the mix....... 8)

You can hear me using this technique a lot in the Blues CD cuts in the URL at the bottom of my sig.
The Axeman (##(===> Cuts From My New Blues CD